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July 24, 2008

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Craig

No, Kara, I'm not a professional reviewer (though I play one on my blog occasionally). Thanks for making my day with the inquiry, though.

You're right, Tyler, if when you say "one's own inconsistency is underscored" you're referring to "ones" who see the movie from more of the perspective of the Joker and Two-Face. I'd love to hear thoughts on Tyler's point from someone who doesn't espouse a Christian worldview.

I would hesitate labeling Batman as a Romantic. Isn't Romanticism escape from reality? While the Joker and Two-Face are true to their beliefs, I think Batman is as well in that, while he struggles, he still embraces his place in a greater story (that of the people and place of Gotham City), as well as in the name of something outside himself (i.e., hope, which is the result and point of the ferry conundrum).

tyler

and thank you for an excellent perspective on the film.

tyler

the most popular reaction i've heard is one of despair, needing to digest the movie, not knowing what to do with it. i think the realities the joker & two-face present is simply startling. realizing they share the same basic beliefs regarding chaos, chance, no meta-narrative to speak of, one's own inconsistency is underscored.

interestingly, these villians are the only sane & honest people in the story while batman's romanticism remains the real hero.

Kara Tippetts

Oh my, you really do think a lot Craig. You make me almost wish I liked these kind of movies. You should review movies for a living! Wait, do you?

travis

Good thoughts one and all. I thought the best part of this film (and Batman Begins) is that we finally have a crew capturing the tragic and gothic nature of this comic. Despite all the camp with which these characters have sometimes been portrayed there are substantive issues being discussed at the core. (This is actually true of many superhero/supervillain comic scenarios.)

In particular, Ledger has defined the role of the Joker and I'm not sure how long it will be before anyone comes close to the high-mark he set. The thought of meeting him face to face would certainly be more like dancing with the devil in the pale moonlight than Nicholson's incarnation in the original.

Regarding things I would change there's not much I can say without spoiling parts of the movie. I think I can summarize by saying that I would have actually made the movie a bit darker and more bleak. In the final assessment I think the movie promotes an overly optimistic view of human nature.

However, I disagree that Batman is a Romantic. As the character's personality begins to become more bifurcated I think what we'll see is that Bruce Wayne is the Romantic while his alter-ego is a different creature all together. I will be very interested in seeing what happens with number 3.

In closing, what did people think about the Scarecrow cameo? And how about the hints of a future Robin?

Craig

I agree, Travis - the "overly optimistic view of human nature" you mentioned is part of the melodrama I mentioned. Still, it felt good after 2+ hours of turmoil, I suppose.

The Scarecrow has got to come back as "the" villain at some point - he's too interesting a character to barely get used in two movies now. Help me with the Robin hints - I completely missed those.

travis

what young child looks longingly at the batman on several occasions. they will obviously have to change the original backstory for the character if they go with this one but they've changed them with a few other people so why not?

Tebor

I thought the film was plenty edited. It is indeed a final cut and nothing should've been added or cut. It felt like the 47th version of the film and it works. It is a great example of a film utilizing the edit room.

travis

i thought the ease with which harvey fell was part of the point.

Craig

Travis, I know what you're referencing, but that seems a stretch. I actually hope they keep Robin out of this new franchise, so maybe I'm just in denial about the possibility.

I agree, Tebor. The film was well-edited and easy to watch.

nick

I'm with Craig in hoping that Robin is not brought into the story. Among other reasons, I don't think it would be consistent with Bruce/Batman's disdain for both the need and existence of masked heroes.

I think you're pretty right on in your overall appraisal, Craig. Although, we should remember that the Joker is a liar, and so we can't take that quote you included as truly representative of his views or motives. Of course the Joker has plans, of course he's a schemer. Satan wasn't so much interested in chaos as he was in glory for himself. I think the same goes for the Joker. If that is accurate, then the Joker isn't so much responding to the madness of this world with chaos, as he is becoming Nietzsche's superman. If the world doesn't make sense, and there is no One to call us to account, then to pursue your own interests at all costs makes as much sense as any other response.

My only semi-major critique of the movie was that I thought Harvey's fall (even considering the Joker's push) was a little too easy.

nick

Yeah, I know it was the point, and I even agree with the point: "even the best of us can fall." But within the context and flow of the story, within the parameters of reality that the movie had set up, I didn't think it rang true.

travis

i don't know; having to constantly watch my back for assassination attempts, watching a vigilante accomplish more good illegally than i can as a d.a., listening as the woman i love dies in an explosion, having half my face burned off, and knowing the last two things were enable by corrupt cops - this might be more than enough to push me over the edge.

besides these things the movie hinted at harvey's willingness to step outside the law earlier in the film. we all have our perspectives though so i respect the fact that it just didn't work for you.

rob

in a movie it pushes you over the edge Travis but not in reality, but of course those things dont all come together in reality in the scope of a few days much less 2.5 hours

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